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I'm worried about going to Vestival for a number of reasons.
One, all we have written for the game is the bluesheet, which, admittedly, is the only thing we can write without knowing how many players we'll have. At least with Intercon, you can assume a full game, but Vestival is hard to fill.
elenuial will be freezing the numbers soon, so that will help somewhat, but it'll still be difficult.
Also, an issue I had with our Intercon game, Leash, was that because I was all for talking about it and advertising it, everyone just referred to it as my game, and not my and
elenuial's. I made an effort to correct people who came up to congratulate me on it, but it was still kind of disheartening. I don't know what the middle ground is, though, since I'm so enthusiastic about the games I help write/run, and toning myself down seems like the only option. Now with Pop Diva on the docket, I'm making it clear in all my posts and tweets and to everyone I speak to that while I think it'll be awesome, it's
elenuial's game. I'm just helping write it. I know that he tends to fall into the background roles a lot, but I also know how validating it is to be praised and congratulated. No matter how much he tells me otherwise, I know how happy it makes him when people tell him how much they enjoyed things and he gets to be in the spotlight. (His J-z game was awesome, as I heard from lots of people - why did no one tell him this to his face? It would've made him so happy.)
The main thing, though, is the social aspect of it all. I spend way too much time with creatures with four legs and not nearly enough time with two, and the parallels between the social structure in both species' worlds leads me to observe a lot of things that I don't think I should notice or take too much stock in. After all, a lot of humans don't function as dogs do.
For example: A girl I know changed her mind about something involving me, and apologized. I reassured her that it was no big deal and that I was totally fine with whatever made her comfortable. She still seemed very unsure and awkward, so at the next social gathering, I smiled and said hello, but gave her her space. Later on that week, her boyfriend approached me and asked if I'd given her the cold shoulder - apparently, she was upset and he came instead. I explained that I was giving her space and therefore the opportunity to come initiate something if she felt comfortable, but not to force myself on her if she was still feeling odd about anything. She hadn't seen it that way, and told him so. But that's what I do in socially awkward situations; when I know someone will feel awkward interacting with me, I try to give them space and come to me on their own terms, when they feel ready. It seems like a sound strategy, in my mind. Now I know that it can be easily misinterpreted as avoidance when someone is already socially oversensitive from awkwardness.
Upon further reflection, I've found that this, along with many of my social behaviors, comes from canine social structure. That's what you do with an upset or nervous dog - you wait for them to come to you and reestablish a connection and restore the social norm.
This, on a related note, makes me really suck at passive-aggressive games. I can't play them well, and don't deal with them well. I often don't even understand them, which ostracized me even more as a teenage girl in a high school full of teenage girls. As if being gay wasn't enough.
This really isn't good. I mean, it explains a hell of a lot, but because I spent a good deal of my life actively avoiding people, I filled in the gaps of my human social knowhow with that from the canine version. It's eerily accurate, for the most part - I can recognize subconscious dominance displays as well as acutely interpret body language, even to a point that gives
elenuial goosebumps, but miss a lot of big things that have to be explained to me later. At 23, I'm still missing huge things, and this makes me wonder if my stunted social development has been halted, despite my efforts.
I can do anything to a dog. Things their parents can't even do. I've lost track of the number of owners I've made break or cry because I've connected with their dog in a way they haven't figured out yet. I've taken things from the mouths of dogs that won't let their parents touch their faces, clipped the nails of dogs who would bite anyone else rather than let them touch their feet, and gotten abused rescue dogs afraid of human hands to take both signals and food from me in a confident manner. Many of my students have hugged me and thanked me for saving their hopeless cases. But it's not because I'm a genius or am somehow telepathic, I just function on the wavelength that these dogs understand. Because I know the social and behavioral rules, dogs are infinitely more comfortable around me than even those with the best of intentions but the most jumbled signals.
I understand how the way you sit makes yourself open to a greeting or not. I know what every signal means, I know what the pattern of feet translates to, and I just think in a way that makes me more compatible with dogs than, in most cases, other humans. This is what makes me an excellent trainer - there's something wrong with my brain. Always has been.
There was a woman at Lunacon the year I went talking about Asperger's and how it changes your interaction with animals, and something in my head clicked. I talked with her afterwards, and she completely confirmed that I'm not alone, and on a good road for it.
The explanation doesn't change the fact that the problem exists.
My head hurts when I think of the number of potential misunderstandings that this may have led to. Especially in the way I deal with conflict - like a dog. First instinct, attempt to correct the situation, then wait for the other person to reapproach. I might know that I'm okay, but the other person may need space to process, and that's okay with me.
I've learned to apologize and eat dirt a lot over the last few years.
I've also learned something very important about myself and the way I live - I'm an Alpha. Completely and totally. However, being an Alpha is very, very different than the way a lot of people imagine it. When you use the word to describe someone, the usual connotation is that the person is shiny, attention-grabbing, and openly socially powerful.
That may be true for humans, but I'm more of a canine Alpha. For dogs, who relish routines and normalcy (dogs do very, very well with rigid schedules), the person who is Alpha is the person who keeps the social norms. The reason they have the power is because they, more than anyone else in the group, want to keep things at a manageable level. There's a reason it's the strongest dog - he's the one who can keep the others calm. There's also a reason that humans with dogs need to establish themselves as leaders of the family - a dog who doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility to manage the family is a happy, stress-free dog. It's not to control him or smack him down when he misbehaves - it's to ensure that he doesn't want for anything, mentally or physically.
This translates to me behaving like an Alpha dog in public. "Dog" being the key word here. I'm so concerned with making sure that everything is going well socially that I'll fluctuate between zeroing in on someone and flitting to large groups of people. I also chronically throw my hobbies out into conversation - whether it's larping, photography, dogs, anything - to say, in a not-so-subtle way, "Here! These are things I can talk about at length, so the social interaction couldn't possibly fail!" It's pretty sad, looking at it from a distance, but it's what a dog would do. Make an overt offering, wait for them to take it, and if they do, assume that the social exchange went well and get excited. This is also why I ramble on so damn much about my hobbies in conversation - I'm just excited that something went right.
I'm also wary with strangers because of this. Not just in a human way, but in a social situation where I'm bound to be meeting new people, I wait for them to approach me. I hardly ever approach people, because I've been told by many people that I'm intimidating. I've tried to tone it down, but other people's comfort comes first. That's why I wait - when they're comfortable, they can come to me. I won't force anything. This often makes me look cold and elitist, but that's better than looking like the puppy who'll bounce into the laps of unwitting strangers.
Don't get me wrong, there are times when comfort isn't an issue - I'm getting more and more assertive when it comes to conflict - and I can stick up for myself. No, that's not okay. Yes, I can deal with that. No, that hurts. I actually blew out a lot of tension the other night with
elenuial in something that could've turned into an argument, and just by stating the obvious and not backing down, we ended up laughing and going to bed happy and letting the who-knows-why-it's-here tension go, avoided a bad route. Alpha dog. If there's no problem, go back to normal.
I will also engage anyone who approaches me (again, like an alpha) in a social situation. I really will talk to just about anybody. It also means that if more than one person wants my attention, it's not hard to get it. And, even more than that, since I'm that easy socially, I tend to get a lot of attention for it. After all, it's hard to not want to interact with someone when they're excited to talk to you, no matter what the motivation is. I've had people tell me, via others, that they feel like they "disappear" when I enter a room or conversation.
Mainly, this is because I'm so excited that anyone's even talking to me. Even after all this time, I get so animated and chatty because of the idea that someone wants to be social with me, and it's still a big deal to me.
Wow. Re-reading that, I sound like a pathetic and easily excitable toddler learning to interact with adults. Maybe mentally, that's where I'm at.
The reason I get any attention at all is because I'm so receptive to people being social with me and therefore reassuring me that I'm not a complete and total social failure. My natural inclination is to be an alpha, sure, but that doesn't mean that I know how to be one. I just try to keep things lively and engaging constantly.
At least, that's my current theory. If anyone who's observed me in groups has any other better theories as to why, other than being loud and obnoxious, I garner attention, let me know.
There are a few people who have seen right through this and let me know enough that I can have actual, not haz-centered "oh god, I'll say anything about myself as long as you don't stop talking to me" conversation. (Also, notice how the things I bring up are things I enjoy? That's so, in the rare instance we get any closer, you still think I'm interesting and cool when we ever talk about things that I've horribly failed at, like academia and art.) I mean, off the top of my head, I can only name
elenuial,
buddhagrrl,
jingsaw, my sister/cousin, and my best friend from high school. Maybe my mother. But she's crazy too, and does it count if two crazy people understand each other?
I guess I'm a dog sandwich. Looks like a human, talks/acts/thinks like a dog, but is a human underneath it all.
Still thinking about all the ways I behave like a dog in social situations. Man, I'm so fucked. There are literally hundreds of incongruous behaviors.
And, like an animal, I only discuss my health with the above people. No one wants to hear about the way my body has had massive failures to communicate with itself in irreparable ways that make me less human. But someone needs to know in order to care, and when anyone, human or animal, is near-heartbroken, empathy is key.
I don't know what to do, other than continue down the road I'm already on. Either way, with these epiphanies, I don't know if a large-scale social event like Vestival will be better or worse than it would've been otherwise.
I'm leaving this entry public in two hopes: One, that there's someone in a similar situation who might understand themselves better and know that they're not alone (I get weekly emails from mothers of Asperger's children who read my blog), and two, that other people might see what I do and know why I do it. Not that it's up to other people to understand when I fuck up, but it's good to throw your problems out on the wind and hope someone hears it.
Who knows? Maybe you'll understand your dog a little better, too.
elenuial is dating a dog. Honest to god - it's clear in everything I do, the poor guy. I hate asking anyone to babysit me socially, but I suppose I do need a lot of help.
Like a trainer on how to be a normal human.
Do I get biscuits?
One, all we have written for the game is the bluesheet, which, admittedly, is the only thing we can write without knowing how many players we'll have. At least with Intercon, you can assume a full game, but Vestival is hard to fill.
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Also, an issue I had with our Intercon game, Leash, was that because I was all for talking about it and advertising it, everyone just referred to it as my game, and not my and
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
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The main thing, though, is the social aspect of it all. I spend way too much time with creatures with four legs and not nearly enough time with two, and the parallels between the social structure in both species' worlds leads me to observe a lot of things that I don't think I should notice or take too much stock in. After all, a lot of humans don't function as dogs do.
For example: A girl I know changed her mind about something involving me, and apologized. I reassured her that it was no big deal and that I was totally fine with whatever made her comfortable. She still seemed very unsure and awkward, so at the next social gathering, I smiled and said hello, but gave her her space. Later on that week, her boyfriend approached me and asked if I'd given her the cold shoulder - apparently, she was upset and he came instead. I explained that I was giving her space and therefore the opportunity to come initiate something if she felt comfortable, but not to force myself on her if she was still feeling odd about anything. She hadn't seen it that way, and told him so. But that's what I do in socially awkward situations; when I know someone will feel awkward interacting with me, I try to give them space and come to me on their own terms, when they feel ready. It seems like a sound strategy, in my mind. Now I know that it can be easily misinterpreted as avoidance when someone is already socially oversensitive from awkwardness.
Upon further reflection, I've found that this, along with many of my social behaviors, comes from canine social structure. That's what you do with an upset or nervous dog - you wait for them to come to you and reestablish a connection and restore the social norm.
This, on a related note, makes me really suck at passive-aggressive games. I can't play them well, and don't deal with them well. I often don't even understand them, which ostracized me even more as a teenage girl in a high school full of teenage girls. As if being gay wasn't enough.
This really isn't good. I mean, it explains a hell of a lot, but because I spent a good deal of my life actively avoiding people, I filled in the gaps of my human social knowhow with that from the canine version. It's eerily accurate, for the most part - I can recognize subconscious dominance displays as well as acutely interpret body language, even to a point that gives
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
I can do anything to a dog. Things their parents can't even do. I've lost track of the number of owners I've made break or cry because I've connected with their dog in a way they haven't figured out yet. I've taken things from the mouths of dogs that won't let their parents touch their faces, clipped the nails of dogs who would bite anyone else rather than let them touch their feet, and gotten abused rescue dogs afraid of human hands to take both signals and food from me in a confident manner. Many of my students have hugged me and thanked me for saving their hopeless cases. But it's not because I'm a genius or am somehow telepathic, I just function on the wavelength that these dogs understand. Because I know the social and behavioral rules, dogs are infinitely more comfortable around me than even those with the best of intentions but the most jumbled signals.
I understand how the way you sit makes yourself open to a greeting or not. I know what every signal means, I know what the pattern of feet translates to, and I just think in a way that makes me more compatible with dogs than, in most cases, other humans. This is what makes me an excellent trainer - there's something wrong with my brain. Always has been.
There was a woman at Lunacon the year I went talking about Asperger's and how it changes your interaction with animals, and something in my head clicked. I talked with her afterwards, and she completely confirmed that I'm not alone, and on a good road for it.
The explanation doesn't change the fact that the problem exists.
My head hurts when I think of the number of potential misunderstandings that this may have led to. Especially in the way I deal with conflict - like a dog. First instinct, attempt to correct the situation, then wait for the other person to reapproach. I might know that I'm okay, but the other person may need space to process, and that's okay with me.
I've learned to apologize and eat dirt a lot over the last few years.
I've also learned something very important about myself and the way I live - I'm an Alpha. Completely and totally. However, being an Alpha is very, very different than the way a lot of people imagine it. When you use the word to describe someone, the usual connotation is that the person is shiny, attention-grabbing, and openly socially powerful.
That may be true for humans, but I'm more of a canine Alpha. For dogs, who relish routines and normalcy (dogs do very, very well with rigid schedules), the person who is Alpha is the person who keeps the social norms. The reason they have the power is because they, more than anyone else in the group, want to keep things at a manageable level. There's a reason it's the strongest dog - he's the one who can keep the others calm. There's also a reason that humans with dogs need to establish themselves as leaders of the family - a dog who doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility to manage the family is a happy, stress-free dog. It's not to control him or smack him down when he misbehaves - it's to ensure that he doesn't want for anything, mentally or physically.
This translates to me behaving like an Alpha dog in public. "Dog" being the key word here. I'm so concerned with making sure that everything is going well socially that I'll fluctuate between zeroing in on someone and flitting to large groups of people. I also chronically throw my hobbies out into conversation - whether it's larping, photography, dogs, anything - to say, in a not-so-subtle way, "Here! These are things I can talk about at length, so the social interaction couldn't possibly fail!" It's pretty sad, looking at it from a distance, but it's what a dog would do. Make an overt offering, wait for them to take it, and if they do, assume that the social exchange went well and get excited. This is also why I ramble on so damn much about my hobbies in conversation - I'm just excited that something went right.
I'm also wary with strangers because of this. Not just in a human way, but in a social situation where I'm bound to be meeting new people, I wait for them to approach me. I hardly ever approach people, because I've been told by many people that I'm intimidating. I've tried to tone it down, but other people's comfort comes first. That's why I wait - when they're comfortable, they can come to me. I won't force anything. This often makes me look cold and elitist, but that's better than looking like the puppy who'll bounce into the laps of unwitting strangers.
Don't get me wrong, there are times when comfort isn't an issue - I'm getting more and more assertive when it comes to conflict - and I can stick up for myself. No, that's not okay. Yes, I can deal with that. No, that hurts. I actually blew out a lot of tension the other night with
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
I will also engage anyone who approaches me (again, like an alpha) in a social situation. I really will talk to just about anybody. It also means that if more than one person wants my attention, it's not hard to get it. And, even more than that, since I'm that easy socially, I tend to get a lot of attention for it. After all, it's hard to not want to interact with someone when they're excited to talk to you, no matter what the motivation is. I've had people tell me, via others, that they feel like they "disappear" when I enter a room or conversation.
Mainly, this is because I'm so excited that anyone's even talking to me. Even after all this time, I get so animated and chatty because of the idea that someone wants to be social with me, and it's still a big deal to me.
Wow. Re-reading that, I sound like a pathetic and easily excitable toddler learning to interact with adults. Maybe mentally, that's where I'm at.
The reason I get any attention at all is because I'm so receptive to people being social with me and therefore reassuring me that I'm not a complete and total social failure. My natural inclination is to be an alpha, sure, but that doesn't mean that I know how to be one. I just try to keep things lively and engaging constantly.
At least, that's my current theory. If anyone who's observed me in groups has any other better theories as to why, other than being loud and obnoxious, I garner attention, let me know.
There are a few people who have seen right through this and let me know enough that I can have actual, not haz-centered "oh god, I'll say anything about myself as long as you don't stop talking to me" conversation. (Also, notice how the things I bring up are things I enjoy? That's so, in the rare instance we get any closer, you still think I'm interesting and cool when we ever talk about things that I've horribly failed at, like academia and art.) I mean, off the top of my head, I can only name
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
I guess I'm a dog sandwich. Looks like a human, talks/acts/thinks like a dog, but is a human underneath it all.
Still thinking about all the ways I behave like a dog in social situations. Man, I'm so fucked. There are literally hundreds of incongruous behaviors.
And, like an animal, I only discuss my health with the above people. No one wants to hear about the way my body has had massive failures to communicate with itself in irreparable ways that make me less human. But someone needs to know in order to care, and when anyone, human or animal, is near-heartbroken, empathy is key.
I don't know what to do, other than continue down the road I'm already on. Either way, with these epiphanies, I don't know if a large-scale social event like Vestival will be better or worse than it would've been otherwise.
I'm leaving this entry public in two hopes: One, that there's someone in a similar situation who might understand themselves better and know that they're not alone (I get weekly emails from mothers of Asperger's children who read my blog), and two, that other people might see what I do and know why I do it. Not that it's up to other people to understand when I fuck up, but it's good to throw your problems out on the wind and hope someone hears it.
Who knows? Maybe you'll understand your dog a little better, too.
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
Like a trainer on how to be a normal human.
Do I get biscuits?
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:00 pm (UTC)So maybe we're both just crazy. Better crazy than miserable.
And it's a good thing this is public, otherwise I would be unable to stalk you, since our social interaction is limited to non-existent?
*sadface.*
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:05 pm (UTC)Life blows. Let's stop the world and get off a while and be wolf-packie all we like.
..and our respective significant others are invited.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:16 pm (UTC)I like that.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 12:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 09:32 pm (UTC)Seriously, no lie. Wow. This makes . . . so much more sense.
There's more I could say, but it might grow to lengths exceeding your original post.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 10:43 pm (UTC)You and I do some similar things with social circles and easing in conversations. I'm glad you wrote this - thank you for your honesty. :)
I was raised by a woman who'd been emotionally abused, so I 'get' some of this alphaness on that level. Keep everything normal, and it all works out.
Relatedly; I've treasured the quiet times we work together on something. Thank you for that trust. (& if you ever want a go south get-away, letme know.) please feel free to talk about anything with me. :)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 11:22 pm (UTC)For what it's worth, I think all of us who avoided people or were avoided by people during our formative social years compensate for what we didn't learn socially by filling in the gaps with other areas of knowledge.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 12:13 am (UTC)At least I don't lick faces or bite people.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 12:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-08 08:16 pm (UTC)Since when?
Okay, fair, I've never seen you lick people. I do, or did, though not so much these days, because I am all growed up and way older and have more self control than you. Too much self control, actually, but I'm working on that.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 01:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 01:21 am (UTC)It might just be me, but some of the behaviors you're describing as alpha seem to be just being a good host or a good 'mother hen' type- being the person to keep things running. I'm not sure what that says, either about me or you.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 01:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 02:02 am (UTC)But I'm really glad to hear that someone (multiple someones!) told him how awesome it was. It makes me really happy. =)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 02:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 02:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 02:58 am (UTC)It is probably not coincidental that whenever I think of myself as having an animal alter-ego, he's a big, dumb, golden retriever. ;) Nor is it coincidental, I guess, that Sequoia was convinced for a while that I was Asperger's. A psych eval disagreed with that assertion, but it's all on a spectrum, innit?
In any case, the main place I differ in my self-assessment from what you've said here is not so much in content as in tone. I never really thought of these traits as particularly unusual, and certainly not as maladaptive. They're just... the way I am, which has done me more good than harm, I think. Maybe I'm mis-interpreting the phenomena you describe, or maybe we've just had sufficiently different experiences, but I'd like to take the opportunity to confirm that you're def not the only person identifies with these behaviors, and that maybe it's not as weird, or problematic when compared to other ways of being, all of which have their problems, as you may be assuming. Don't beat yourself up too much with comparisons to some mythical "normal" human.
And yes, you get biscuits. :)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 07:26 pm (UTC)*points at this*
I'm not a professional in the field or anything, but my strong impression is that there are an immense number of ways to model / deal with social interactions - there is no "normal". (More-common vs. less-common, sure, but no single "this is how the majority of people work" way.) So while the canine model is probably a fringe case, the majority of people you meet are probably also working off of fringe-case models - just different ones (both from you and from each other).
I can't think of any social-advice I've ever heard/read which doesn't involve some level of "it is useful to be able to communicate well with those who have different interaction styles from your own" - because it's a ubiquitous problem; everyone is constantly dealing with people who have (sometimes dramatically) different interaction models.
(And FWIW, it looks like you [
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 04:14 am (UTC)(I'ma finish reading the rest of the post now)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-06 06:28 am (UTC)Here is my observation, for what it is worth. Everyone likes attention, likes to think that they are interesting. When you focus your attention on people, it's like a frikkin beam of light, made of whatever it is that people like beams of light to be made of. You focus your attention so well, like a frikkin laser, it can leave someone with the impression that they are the coolest person at that particular moment.
I have felt that effect myself. I have also hung around with you enough to see that effect on others as well. I find it to be an interesting phenomenon.
I'm not sure if that helps you understand it better, but that is what I have observed.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-08 08:38 pm (UTC):-)
Everyone I know has social communication issues, even the folks that seem the most well adjusted. They all seem to center around differences in meaning and interpretation. The best thing I think we can do is just try to assume the best intentions on the part of the other person, refuse to acknowledge the passive-aggressive game exists, and be patient as we work out our individual Rosetta stones of social meaning.
Don't see it as yourself f-ing up; see it as a mutual failure to communicate. You and whoever has a problem with you just don't speak the same language. If you're an impatient prick about it, and being maliciously unkind and catty, THEN you're f-ing up. Otherwise no. So stop beating yourself up.
I'm glad that you've had some introspection time and are starting to see your own patterns. This puts you in a better position to understand what you need and maybe how to ask for it. Don't fret in silence.
And I wouldn't worry about it at Vestival. It may be a social event but its very largeness is part of what gives you protection from needing to worry about this too much. There's enough inherent social chaos that your personal chaos might slip easily under the radar. Plus, it's a gaggle of gamers. We are all convinced we are more socially maladjusted than the rest of the human population. You'll be with your people. Srsly.